“I can’t imagine ever getting that close to a Hamas leader.” “Ms. Keller-Sutter, who would you most like to work with in the Federal Council?”

A selfie of a Palestinian AP war photographer with a Hamas leader is currently circulating in the media. The journalist is holding the camera, the Hamas leader has his arm around him and kisses him on the cheek. Can you imagine how such a photo could be created?
Alex Kuhni: Yes and no. As a war photographer, I always try to move through the war zone as neutrally as possible. But I always trust that the warring parties will give me access to the area. During my last visit to Gaza, I also spoke with and photographed members of terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. We should not forget that Hamas rules Gaza and that such organizations are ubiquitous there.

What would have to happen before you would take such a selfie? Should Hamas force you to do this?
We have very little context to the image. I don’t know how it happened. As a Swiss war photographer, I cannot imagine ever being able to get so close to a Hamas leader, much less being forced to take such a selfie. We war journalists are not important enough for that. But I would never take a photo like that. I am not on my way to photograph myself, but to show what war means for the people affected by it. On all sides.

According to the “Tages-Anzeiger”, the non-governmental organization “Honest Reporting” now accuses the Palestinian war photographer of having advance knowledge of the Hamas attack on October 7. He was remarkably fast at the border fence, through which the Hamas fighters broke through. What do you think?
If it turned out that he had known that Hamas intended to explicitly kill civilians, he would certainly have crossed a line. But we don’t know that at the moment.

When is this line crossed for war reporters? You said that you yourself had direct contact with Hamas in the past.
I have not dealt with Hamas directly, only through a local translator. The line is crossed when war photographers no longer document but rather participate. That would have been the case if the AP photographer had actively participated in the Hamas attack, for example logistically or, worse, with a weapon. But I can’t imagine Hamas informing a reporter about such an operation. You should also be aware that the Gaza Strip is extremely small. Only ten percent of the area of ​​the canton of Bern. It is understandable that you quickly get to the place where something is happening. But of course I don’t know what the truth is either. I trust that AP will handle this matter well. This is extremely important.

Why?
If a journalist were to actively participate in the terrorist attacks – and I’m not talking about taking photos – that would legitimize attacks on journalists. Therefore, it is important that such allegations are investigated.

As a war photographer you are dependent on the goodwill of both warring parties. You only receive this goodwill because both parties have an interest in influencing your work. Or not?
In every conflict, the third party is public opinion. There is no better example of this than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Photos of children murdered in Gaza certainly do not contribute to supporting the Israeli army’s military operations, as we can clearly see at this moment. And now the Israeli army has started taking some female journalists into the war zone. The only way war journalists can currently reach Gaza is through an official permit from Israel. I am now trying to get such a permit. I want to be able to see the fighting with my own eyes.

How independent can photos be in this environment if they accompany the Israeli army? I don’t think you can just drop off in Gaza and walk through the war zone.
No, that doesn’t work. It’s way too dangerous. But photos can still be independent. The Israeli army does not suddenly take away your camera or prohibit you from taking certain photos. There are just certain rules. For example, I am not allowed to publish photos of tanks at a certain base until a few hours or days later, because otherwise Hamas can find out where the Israeli army is currently located. Of course I adhere to such rules. I want to document the war and not influence it.

They were last in the Gaza Strip in 2019. Can you tell us what your contact person looked like at the time?
Even then I needed permission in the form of an official press card from Israel. With this permit I was the first to pass the Israeli checkpoint in the Gaza Strip. Then I walked straight for a while in no man’s land until I arrived at the Hamas checkpoint. There I then had to show Palestinian entry documents and a contact person within the Gaza Strip. In my case it was my old translator.

And then Hamas let you pass? Have you damaged any hair?
Yes. Hamas was the government in Gaza at the time, but whether it can remain that way remains to be seen. At that time, I was even able to talk to young fighters who were training for the military attack on Israel. In retrospect, this obviously takes on a whole new dimension.

What did you talk to the fighters about?
I don’t remember exactly. For me, the conversations are usually just a way to get closer to people so that I can then take the most authentic photos possible.

Is not that dangerous?
My job is dangerous, yes. But warring parties usually have an interest in having it reported on. However, I never reveal my own opinion on the conflict. I try to approach every conversation as neutrally as possible. My goal is not to take sides, but to understand and show what war does to people. And what has to happen is that a person develops so much hatred towards other people that he no longer feels empathy for the other person.

And what should be done?
A lot has to be broken beforehand. I have good friends on both sides of the Gaza fence. I lived in Israel and endured nights of constant bomb threats. Imagine experiencing this every day! Every night! This constant fear does something to people. And on the other side is the very young population in Gaza, who only know a life of poverty, war and fear. Young people who have lost their entire family. Have no prospects. That also does something to people. Finally, there is propaganda on both sides, which turns this fear into hatred.

What do you remember most about your work in the Gaza Strip so far?
I was in Gaza in 2019 and 2014. And both times I heard Hamas say, “Every time Israel bombs us, the number of our recruits triples.” This shows how the spiral of violence keeps this conflict alive. I therefore have no confidence whatsoever that this conflict can be resolved in the near future. This would take many years of peace.