“Late Night seems masculine, even the Americans can’t do a show with a woman”

Carolin Kebekus, last week Swiss television announced that the only deadbolt lock would remain in male hands. Does that surprise you?
Caroline Kebekus: Honestly No. Also in Germany programs under the label ‘Late-Night’ are still male. I too can only successfully do late night with my “Carolin Kebekus Show” on ARD because I would never call my program a late night show. If I did, everyone would be talking about the fact that a woman can’t go late at night again.

Like then with Anke Engelke, who failed miserably two decades ago with her follow-up format on the “Harald Schmidt Show”?
Yes, exactly. This format seems to be a male legacy. Not even the Americans who invented it can put on a show with a woman.

Why is that? Talk a little about politics, a band and talk show guests. Women can do that too, right?
As with anything masculine, it’s a matter of habit. The humor I consumed on television as a child was presented by men. At most, women were the funny signals or the ones at whom jokes were made. That’s why it was such an obvious moment for me when I first saw these funny women like Anke Engelke or Gaby Köster on German television in the 1990s. The idea of ​​being able to do something as a woman is one thing, but it is even more important to be able to see it.

Her colleague and friend Hazel Brugger, who also lives in Cologne, would have been the first choice for Swiss television, but she turned it down. Is it a sign of progress that women can sometimes say “no” to such formulas?
Maybe. She certainly has plenty of other things to do. But she’s not the only Swiss woman doing comedy.

Maybe women just don’t feel like exposing themselves?
I think women generally know much better what they are doing on stage and how well that is received. I’ve seen so many women come off the stage like failures and say, “Wow, I did that really badly.” When men screw up, they just say, “Whoa, people were in a bad mood today.”

Is self-criticism a hindrance?
Men learn to accept failure much earlier and experience earlier that they can learn from failure. Women are trained from childhood to behave competitively. Statements such as: “This is not a competition, everyone has won” immediately stand out, while the boys are allowed to participate.

Were you able to test your limits when you were younger?
Of course, but I was never one to always insult, or always want to bang my head against the wall. But what irritated me even then: that I was biased because of my gender, put in a drawer. Even when I wasn’t really good at things like some guys, I always found it exhausting to be told up front, “Oh, that’s not for girls.”

What did the school newspaper say about you?
All students have voted on our professional future. I said I was going to be a pop star, comedian or actress.

direct hit. Were you confirmed in your self-image?
I used to love being funny, but at the time I didn’t think comedy was a real job. There were almost no funny women on the screen.

I saw a video from 2008. You appear at 28-year-old Harald Schmidt and mock the wives of mindless players. Today such a skit would be a no-go for you, right?
You evolve along with society. Back then, I loved myself in this “I’m-not-like-all-other-women” role. This is a strategy you choose as a woman when you realize that the patriarchal structures are so strong that you have no choice but to adapt. So I pretended to be the coolest woman who sits at the same table as the guys and thinks, “All women are shit.”

When did you realize that this path was not right for you?
I was once asked in an interview if I was a feminist. I replied that that was too blatant for me. My interlocutor then said that it was a pity because I represented many feminist interests. I bought “The Second Sex” by Simone de Beauvoir and realized that with the role I play in the comedy business, I am fully part of this patriarchy.

How do you manage to convey feminist concerns in such an honest and humorous way?
There’s no big strategy behind it. I’m not very radical in what I represent. In comedy it is important to keep the balance: where does activism begin and where does humor end? Where it is important and right to get angry in order to draw attention to something, and where it is only about having fun.

Do you come on stage as an angry woman?
Certainly not as good as the angry man. Emotions are judged much more strongly in women than in men. Anger is interpreted in women as hysteria, as loss of control, in men as strength – in the sense of “someone is finally saying it!”

You’ve been promoting women in show business for years. In the fall you take several funny comedy women to Zurich and Basel for a “mixed show”. Why is this so important to you?
I felt like I was taking up an insane amount of space, especially since I’m famous. In the past, I was often the only woman invited to comedy shows. At that time there was an unspoken law that only one woman was allowed in such a group of men, which of course is nonsense. Not every woman is like me and there are women in all possible colors, shapes and facets. I felt the need to strike a balance.

Did the role of the quota woman bother you?
Precisely. When I read the names of several comedy women in the acceptance speech at an awards ceremony, the broadcaster cut it out again with the reason “too long”. Since then it has been clear to me: I have to contribute to the visibility of women, namely on my own stage.

Speaking of show business: what went through your mind when you heard about the scandal surrounding the German band Rammstein?
The image of the rock star being adored by his groupies and having sex with them is a common cliché. But this sophisticated structure and efficiency of how women are supposed to be recruited and drugged into sexual acts gives it a whole other dimension. So I got together with a few people and set up a fund.

With what purpose?
In their statement, Rammstein said everyone is entitled to their point of view. But women are deprived of this right when the top-notch Rammstein attorneys issue writs against alleged victims. The women should be able to defend themselves with the money. It cannot be that the power imbalance in this debate is so great. It’s not about assigning blame, it’s about creating equal opportunity.

Speaking of censorship, have you ever been harassed in your career?
Even before I started my television career, I was able to make a good living from my tours and was therefore independent. Of course there were times when the people in charge of the broadcaster said to me, you can’t do this song like that. If it was important to me, I replied: “Either we do it like this, or I don’t do it at all!” Then you accepted it or sometimes cut the number out again. But no man in a key position has ever stood in my way and said to me, “If you want to get ahead, you have to eat with me first.”