“We don’t want killer robots”

Mr. Wollenmann, you are responsible for arms control, disarmament and cyber security at the State Department. Wwhat is the Swiss position on autonomous weapons?
Reto wollenmann: Switzerland does not want killer robots! It is therefore clearly opposed to the development of fully autonomous weapons. At the same time, artificial intelligence is a reality these days and not necessarily bad. We use them everywhere in daily life. But weapons systems need clear legal and ethical boundaries for autonomy.

How does Switzerland intend to regulate this issue internationally?
Switzerland is bound by international regulations. It expressly wants to ban autonomous weapons that cannot meet the requirements of international humanitarian law. Such weapons would violate international humanitarian law and raise serious ethical concerns. In addition, Switzerland wants the use of all other autonomous weapons to be internationally controlled and regulated. You have to set clear limits on autonomy. This means that people remain in control and bear responsibility. The decision about someone’s life or death should not be left to an algorithm. Switzerland supports the negotiations in Geneva, which want to record these principles in a protocol.

What is the status of the negotiations?
The work of the expert group in Geneva has been ongoing since 2014. We have already made important conceptual progress. In 2019, the states agreed on eleven guiding principles. Compliance with international humanitarian law has the highest priority. Unfortunately, negotiations with the Russian offensive war against Ukraine have stalled. In any case, it was agreed to continue the talks next year.

How realistic is an international agreement to regulate these weapon systems at the moment?
Unfortunately, an agreement backed by the great powers and the most technologically advanced states is not yet within reach. And an agreement without these states would probably only be symbolic.

Where’s the problem?
Numerous questions are open. It starts with defining what autonomous weapons are, what is and what is not allowed. And the question arises how to monitor compliance with rules.

Which states are specifically against?
Russia has always been skeptical, and arms control issues have become even more difficult since February. Because the expert group has to make decisions by consensus, one country can block them. But all the other states seem to want a result in principle. How far a regulation extends and whether it takes the form of an international treaty or rather a declaration, is still not agreed today.

What does Switzerland do if previous international regulatory efforts fail?
The number of states advocating effective international regulation is growing. Last March, Switzerland and 23 other countries submitted a proposal to Geneva. This was expanded into a statement by 70 states at the UN in New York. So things are moving forward, albeit slowly. The efforts are long lasting.

The research was made possible in part by a grant from the Journafonds.