“Healthy food fights depression better than antidepressants”

Ms. Naidoo, you are a celebrated chef and a psychiatrist trained at Harvard University. A fairly rare combination.
Uma Naidoo: Yes, and I also studied nutrition science.

How did this combination come about?
I come from a big family that always cooks very well and I love good food. At the same time, I have always been interested in science. That is why it was already clear to me as a child that I would one day study medicine. When I started my studies, I was very surprised that nutrition was not part of the curriculum.

They come from an Indian family who immigrated to the United States from South Africa. In Indian medicine, such as Ayurveda, nutrition has played a central role since time immemorial. Did that affect you?
It was not because of my Indian heritage that I became interested in nutrition, but only after I completed my medical studies. I wanted to fill the gaps in my medical studies. At the same time, I was already an enthusiastic cook and wanted to develop further in this area.

In Western medicine, the issue of nutrition has long played a minor role. Why?
Western medicine is defensively oriented. You go to the doctor when you have a problem and they write a prescription for the problem. The lifestyle – diet, exercise, etc. – was not the focus until recently. Prevention was hardly asked for for a long time. Today, however, this question is increasingly integrated into medical treatment.

There were also exceptions. Here in Zurich, for example, Dr. Bircher, the inventor of the muesli of the same name. In the US there was Dr. Kellogg, inventor of the eponymous breakfast cereal. However, Kellogg in particular had a reputation for being a hobo. Even today, the prophets of healthy eating are often considered sectarians.
That can no longer be sustained. Nowadays we know so much about the influence of food on our intestinal flora that it is impossible to imagine science without this subject. I have therefore specialized in how nutrition affects our brain.

But even today, the healthy eating movement and medical science are often seen as opponents. This became clear again, for example, in the discussion about Covid. Opponents of vaccination were often food prophets as well. How to overcome this contradiction?
I don’t see any contradiction here. Today we know that medicines should not only intervene when someone is ill. We must prevent it with proper nutrition.

Why do we still have such a hard time with this knowledge, which is not so new after all?
The pharmaceutical industry is certainly partly to blame, at least in the United States. She makes money with her medicines, not with healthy food. On the other hand, ordinary consumers also need to learn how crucial these questions are. They cannot expect to be informed about this by classical medicine.

The pinnacle of unhealthy eating is sugar. There’s even the theory that sugar is just as addictive as cocaine. Do you share this thesis?
Sugar is harmful, there is no doubt about it. It damages the brain and is in many dishes where you would not expect it, for example in ketchup, salad dressings or even in French fries. But sugar doesn’t make you addicted in the sense of cocaine. However, convenience foods in particular are prepared in such a way that people eat as much of them as possible. So you usually don’t eat a pack of chips, you want two.

Just try to eat one French fries, a legendary ad once said.
Convenience foods are designed by nutrition engineers in such a way that people want more and more of them. Sugar plays an important role in this. But consumers are also to blame. Many don’t want to know about healthy food – or don’t care.

Healthy food is seen as the opposite of good food. Yes, that’s how you should actually eat, many people think. But unfortunately it’s no fun.
It’s time we broke this prejudice. Healthy eating and enjoyment are not opposites.

As you know, everything is politicized these days, including food. The populists claim that healthy food is something an elite wants to force on ordinary people. In this lecture, the cordon bleu or the citizen becomes a political statement. In addition, healthy products are much too expensive for the little man.
This assumption is also incorrect. Healthy eating is not a matter of money.

Especially now in the summer, it is extremely useful to throw a piece of meat on the grill and pour ready-made sauce over the prepared salad. A tasty vegetarian or even vegan menu requires much more effort.
That cannot be denied. Therefore, people must be motivated to cook well. Fortunately, this seems to be the case for more and more young people.

Have you always eaten healthy?
My god no. I ate horribly when I was in college. As a resident, I had so much stress in the hospital that I did everything I tell my students not to do today. I learned from it. After finishing my studies, I remembered that I had to pay more attention to my diet.

It is said that anyone who has not smoked for 20 years is cured. How long does it take to overcome the effects of unhealthy eating?
You have to take into account that everyone has a different intestinal flora. Still, I can assure you that the effects of a healthy diet can be felt after just a week.

How do you tell?
You think more clearly or sleep better. You are less depressed and less anxious. Okay, it can sometimes take a little longer for these effects to kick in.

But not 20 years.
Certainly not 20 years.

is losing weight usually the motivation why someone starts eating healthy. But they mainly emphasize the effect of a healthy diet on the brain. Why?
The brain is the most important organ in the human body. If you eat healthy, you also strengthen your brain. Recent research proves this. For example, a large-scale study shows that healthy food is better at combating depression than antidepressants. We are beginning to understand that food influences our thinking and mood. So while we can’t spread the certainty of a sure cure, we can help people make better decisions.

What are you specifically thinking about?
For example, fermented foods. It can help reduce inflammation. Conversely, salami should only be eaten in small amounts. Like most processed meats, salami contains nitrates, and nitrates are known to promote depression.

Depression and anxiety are seen as new widespread diseases. Is this the result of poor nutrition or the result of social conditions?
From both. In addition, Covid has been very hard for many people. The pandemic has exposed what was already a crisis in people’s mental health. The impact of Covid on depression and anxiety is greater than officially known. Just think of the consequences of Long Covid.

Personally, I like to drink a glass of red wine, sometimes two. How do you see it?
In fact, there is some evidence that red wine may even be beneficial to health under certain circumstances.

The French even claim that it prolongs life.
Oh yeah. Alcohol damages the brain, especially too much of it. Anyone who consumes alcohol should therefore moderate it. It is also a common misconception that red wine promotes healthy sleep. The opposite is the case. You should never combat fear with alcohol. But there’s nothing wrong with enjoying a glass of red wine. On the other hand, I would stay away from cocktails with a lot of sugary ingredients.

What do you think of the coffee?
I like coffee It contains substances that are good for the body, for example the liver, but also the brain. Caffeine is a problem for some people, so moderation is the order of the day. In the US, coffee is also often fortified with various, usually sugary, ingredients. Not a good idea.

They recommend a so-called “rainbow diet”. What do you mean?
The different colored vegetables. Blueberries, carrots, pepperoni, eggplants, etc. are not only a feast for the eyes, they are also very good for the stomach. They have an anti-inflammatory effect. It’s not about the different colors, it’s about the different microbes they bring into our digestive system.

Journalist and nutritionist Michael Pollan began one of his books with the brilliant phrase, “Eat food. Not too much. Especially plants.” What do you make of it?
I love Pollan and those three sentences. It’s not about not eating meat. Pollan himself does this with pleasure. I am personally vegetarian. But the main thing is to find the right balance with food. It’s about what’s good for the body and what’s good for the brain.