“China and the West are like a couple having sex” Demonstration in Bern against deportation of asylum seekers to Croatia

Ai Weiwei walks through the light-drenched glass building “Square”, which the HSG erected high above St. Gallen as a capital for its students. He will meet students here, collector and China expert Ueli Sigg arranged the invitation. Weiwei doesn’t seem impressed, he knows all the tricks of the public eye and knows how to distance himself from the architectural marvels of the world, as well as from fans and the media, in an indifferent and professional manner. When you finally sit across from him for an interview, the surprise is perfect: Ai Weiwei shakes hands with the journalist.

Mr. Weiwei, may I be personal and ask: What have you been very happy about lately?
A.I. Weiwei: Of course you can. To be fair, that was this morning. I was happy to wake up. We cannot overestimate the fact that we wake up every day. We have another day ahead of us and probably another, another day.

Your awareness of the gift of being allowed to live is great. Do you start your day with rituals?
Yes I do, but they change with the situation. For example, this morning I knew I was going to talk to students, that’s good. Communication is the most important thing to me

And what annoyed you recently?
That’s easy, ignorance always irritates me. Not accepting reality, being stuck in illusions.

Can you give us an example of the ignorance that repeatedly annoys you?
An example? Oh, that’s way too many! Or shall we say… No, it’s true, there are too many examples of ignorance.

Neither your enthusiasm nor your displeasure, which you spoke of earlier, have anything to do with art. You are an artist, isn’t art the center of your life?
Art is there and at the same time it is not. Life is always there, everyone has a life and has a way of expressing themselves. There are people who have a special sensitivity to this form or sound of life. This is sometimes called art. Everything is art to me. Once your consciousness is awake and present, every moment is art.

Her father, Ai Qing, a nationally respected painter and poet, was exiled and imprisoned for several years, and you were also imprisoned. What is the meaning of art in totalitarian states?
Art has the same meaning everywhere and always. A political or social system will not change that.

You say that your work in China has the same status as in a democracy?
Why do you use the term democracy? What do you mean by democracy? I do not understand you.

But do I understand you saying that before we can talk about democracy, we have to define it first?
No, I’m saying you’re using a term that is absolutely empty. You say democracy and you don’t know what you are talking about. Every state, every country understands something completely different by democracy. Maybe even the opposite. The understanding of democracy also depends on the era and its events. There is no standard democracy. Anyway, I don’t have a definition for it, but I know we have to fight for it.

How do you advise the West to treat your country, given your starting point and assuming that China and Europe can only meet in the shadow of misunderstandings when it comes to democracy?
The West and China treat each other like a couple having sex. Both want something from each other. Everyone needs everyone in this system that we call globalization. The West taught China that there is nothing but globalization. It’s all about making an even better company, even bigger profits and somehow surviving together. Under these circumstances, everyone should do their best for themselves.

And is there no alternative? Sex is a human need.
The only alternative is to listen carefully to each other and to constantly insist that there are core values ​​that should not be sacrificed in this relationship: human rights or freedom of expression! It is these essential values ​​and laws that must be protected. The West can, of course, demand it, but it must know: China will never listen to it. The two have nothing in common other than the common goal, the need to make a profit – and to survive.

You say that the demands of the West, including those related to human rights, will never be recognized by China?
China knows very well what it is doing. It’s the Chinese way and it’s been working for thousands of years. From the Chinese point of view, their way has been proven to be the best for them. Why should it leave him?

China as a trading partner of the West is not questioned. Is the West as blind to China as it is to Putin? We all wanted to believe the maxim: act through change!
The West is not blind in one eye. He is blind in both eyes. He regularly underestimates his partners.

Has your home country become more democratic since you left it in 2015?
No (laughs), with China it is never about whether it is something more or less. China has remained the same for 3500 years. If anything changes, it’s only on the surface. But internally, China has never changed.

Because…
…because the core of China is the concept of “Chineseness”.

And that means what?
“Chinese” means not wanting to change. There are those who like change and there are those who reject it. Some change clothes every day, others wear the same coat all year round. And I think both are right. They are right, at least as long as they can sustain themselves on their own path. There could be changes along the way, reforms, a revolution – or what happened in China in the 1980s when the economy was struggling. This can lead to changes, including opening up. But the West needs China so much that it continues to do favors to the country. Whether it goes his way or not.

What would need to happen in China for the regime to make an abiding commitment – ​​I don’t say “democratized” – to protecting human rights?
Today I would say they should realize that their baby has outgrown them and they can’t take it anymore.

It’s a poetic metaphor…
China will never change due to external pressure or an external event. If reform is conceivable, it must be done for other, internal reasons. Imagine a driver who has been on the road for a long time and has a very long journey ahead of him. If something happens, if he is tired, if he is stuck, for example because the car is broken, he will stop driving, repair or get a new car. He will change his car, but he never changes his route.

Do artists influence the ride of this wheel? For example, can they make him think about whether the direction is right?
My experience is that art has no influence on politics. Art should also not be about political issues, but about social and humanistic issues. It should contribute to forming opinions and allow us to think about how we make our decisions. In that sense, art is powerful.

How can you separate the political conditions from the social conditions of a society?
You cannot separate the two. But when we talk about changes within a broad political field or issue, art has never had a direct impact. Then power speaks, and usually it is the army.

Experts believe that a Chinese attack on Taiwan would have more global consequences than the war in Ukraine. How realistic do you estimate the possibility of an invasion?
I mean, China is just making noise to get more attention from the west and because they want to see their reaction. I think in China they don’t really care about Tawain, but they want a replica of what it would be like if you put your hand on the island. Taiwan is used as a bargaining chip, as a poker in negotiations.

Officially, Switzerland takes the position that it wants to be politically neutral in world affairs. What do you make of it?
(laughs) Being neutral is always a good position. But in reality they do not exist. Those who claim to be neutral are always on the side of power.

After you left Germany in 2015, you lived in Berlin, then in England and now in Portugal. It’s a restless life. Do you find it difficult to feel at home in Europe?
What do you mean?

They left Berlin angry and disappointed, describing the city as more boring than the most boring Chinese city, criticizing people’s rudeness…
These are not prejudices! My experiences with the west are based on my daily life here. Berlin was not suitable for me. After I left China, I had my first studio there. Incidentally, the US ambassador contacted me and wanted to know why I had emigrated to Germany and not to the US. “Because the Germans did their best to get me out of prison,” was my answer. “Us too!” said the ambassador. “Thank you,” I said, “but Germany offered me a studio.” In that sense I love Berlin. But I can’t stay there if they make me a poster, a showpiece for anti-communist propaganda. I am not anti-communist. But I am anti-authoritarian! In Germany and in the US there are strong authorities, in many ways America and Germany are authoritarian states. You don’t like it when I criticize that. But I am a born critic and I will never sacrifice criticism for comfort. I could have been a hero in Germany. But do I need this?

Does life in Portugal, you live in the Alentejo, suit you better now?
Portugal has been taking naps since the 16th century. I like that. The people are friendly and their food is very good. I’m going to build a studio there. Nothing disturbs, life is relaxed. And we have a lot of sun.

They describe themselves as “the global homeless”. Don’t you know the wish for home?
I don’t have a house. do I want it? I speak Chinese, have a Chinese passport, but I wouldn’t call China home. The year I was born, my father was arrested in his so-called home country, the country he loved most. His most beautiful poems celebrate his homeland, even the prime minister knows them by heart, they are so well known. His homeland imprisoned and mistreated him for 20 years – it’s a miracle he survived. How can you call such a country home? I was clearly told I don’t belong there. I am an enemy of the people. Now I travel outside of China. I would really like to speak Portuguese. It’s very similar to Chinese to me.

Your happiness in Portugal is yours. That said, when was the last time you felt satisfied and confident in your fight for human rights?
I am never satisfied with myself and my work. That’s why I can’t stop. (aargauerzeitung.ch)