Before the hostage crisis: “We must assume the worst and hope for the best” How the Germans are shooting themselves in the foot again

In 2006, Hamas captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. They then negotiated with Hamas for five years until he was released in 2011. Now Hamas and Israel want to exchange Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners on Friday. What do you think of this agreement?
Gerson Baskin: It is the best possible agreement that could have been reached. Between themselves. Now we have to hope that the exchange will start on Friday, that it will be phased in over four days as agreed, that Israel and Hamas will then agree to the ceasefire and the exchange for five, six, seven, to continue for eight days. Days… until we get all the hostages out of the Gaza Strip.

Does it sound like you have a lot of hope?
Not at all. After October 7, many families of the hostages contacted me and asked me to give them hope. Unfortunately I couldn’t and shouldn’t do that. I told them what I always tell myself: we have to assume the worst and hope for the best. Because the situation in which we – both Israelis and Palestinians – are currently living is so catastrophic that no other attitude is possible.

What factors could influence the outcome of this hostage exchange?
A lot. There are many uncertainties, many questions that we cannot yet answer. Technical questions, for example: when exactly will Israel stop flying drones over the Gaza Strip? Does the ceasefire apply to the entire Gaza Strip or only to the northern part? What happens when hundreds of Palestinians who fled to the south of the Gaza Strip make a pilgrimage north during the ceasefire? Will Israel stop them? Does she shoot? What happens if a Hamas fighter shoots an Israeli soldier? Can an Israeli soldier shoot back? And then there are other factors that the Israeli government and the heads of Hamas have under control. We don’t know why there was a 24 hour delay in the exchange. And again, I can only hope. I hope that the reasons that led to this delay have been resolved so that the hostages, children and women, can return to their families.

Were you involved in the negotiations of this hostage agreement?
No. But two days after Hamas’s attack on Israel in October, I contacted Hamas, the Israelis, the Qataris and the Egyptians to negotiate such an agreement. But it didn’t work. Nevertheless, I say: this deal, which has now been completed, is what people call “low-hanging fruit”. It was a ‘no brainer’, a piece of cake.

Why child’s play?
In my opinion, Hamas has no interest in holding children, women, the sick and the elderly hostage. They are a burden to her because they have to take care of her. Hamas is mainly interested in detaining Israeli soldiers. Because it can demand more from Israel for this.

Nevertheless, it took six weeks before this “child’s game” could be negotiated. So it’s not that simple after all.
Oh no, it’s not. That’s not what I meant by that. What I meant was that pursuing these kinds of deals is the first and easiest way: harmless children and women for harmless prisoners. However, in a conflict like this, it always takes time for two parties who are not talking to each other to reach an agreement. Because in doing so they show the other side a kind of recognition.

Perhaps also legitimation in negotiations with a terrorist organization?
Yes absolutely. But if you want to save the lives of innocent people, you are negotiating with the devil. For me personally, there is no one with whom I would stop negotiating if it meant saving an innocent life. Even if it legitimizes terrorists. But it also depends on how you define ‘terrorism’. My personal definition is that a party is terrorist if it uses violence against civilians to achieve political goals. Seen from this perspective, as much as it pains me to say this as an Israeli, the State of Israel also sometimes practices state terrorism against the Palestinian people.

Where do you get the motivation for this work, which can also exhaust you?
In 2005, Hamas took my wife’s cousin hostage and murdered him. A man who was very close to me. He was at my wedding and shortly before Hamas kidnapped him, he was in my car. His death was incredibly painful for me. At his funeral I promised that from now on I would do everything I could to prevent innocent people from being murdered. And I’ve been doing that for seventeen years of my life. This isn’t my first choice of fight. My first choice will always be to negotiate the end of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian people and create a two-state solution. But in recent years I have come to the conclusion that this is not a viable option.

Do you think the conflict will change in any way if the hostage agreement can be fully implemented?
No.

Why not?
I cannot imagine a scenario in which Israel would end the war without achieving its stated goal: physically destroying Hamas’ ability to govern. Moreover, Hamas is still holding 40, 50, 60 soldiers. And young people over the age of 18 who, according to her, have completed military service. Together with them, she will try to force the release of the 7,200 other Palestinian prisoners in Israel. They include 559 people sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Israelis and 130 terrorists captured by Israel on October 7.

Why does Hamas want to release all Palestinian prisoners? She doesn’t seem to care if her fighters die.
When I negotiated the release of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in 2011, in return not only the murderers of my wife’s cousin were released, but also Yahya as-Sinwar. He is one of the highest-ranking Hamas prisoners Israel has ever released under such an agreement. On the day he was released, he promised his fellow prisoners that he would empty Israel’s prisons and bring all Palestinian prisoners home. He has since reiterated his promise. That is his purpose in life. It’s more important to him than his own life. He wants to die as a martyr. This is the ideology of Hamas that we cannot understand with our own Western democratic, liberal reason.

And you understand this ideology?
I can at least try to explain it to you with a short story. When Yahya as-Sinwar was released from prison, he married and had nine children. Currently, his wife is said to be pregnant again. When someone asked him if he would leave his wife alone, he replied: ‘Three of my children will be killed by Israel, three of my children will end up in prison and three of them will have to continue my life after I die. . That’s why I need more children.”

That sounds terrible.
Yes, and that’s what everyone means when they say Israel can defeat Hamas militarily. But they cannot defeat the ideas, the ideology of Hamas with their army, with violence. You fight ideology and ideas with better ideologies and better ideas.

What does “better ideologies and ideas” mean specifically?
This means that the sanctification of death and martyrdom must be replaced by the sanctification of life. Palestinians need to know that there is a real possibility to live for Palestine and not just die for Palestine. And here I hold the international community responsible.

How?
It makes me so angry when I hear politicians from OECD countries say: “We support the two-state solution.” But at the same time, for thirty years they did not bother to recognize the other state: Palestine. We need countries like Switzerland to declare after the end of this war that they will recognize the state of Palestine. That they will welcome a Palestinian embassy in Bern and open an embassy in Palestine themselves. Serious, honest efforts must finally be made, and promises must be followed by action, to one day have peace in the Middle East. We will not be able to fight Hamas’s ideology with empty words.