On March 30, 2023, the fantasy spectacle “Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves” started in German cinemas and managed to gross a whopping $ 38.5 million in its first weekend in the US and even drove “John Wick: Chapter 4” from above.
FILMSTARTS editor Stefan Geisler was able to speak with directors John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein and producer Jeremy Latcham about “Pen & Paper” as a tool of the devil, the influence of 1980s fantasy films and the future of “Dungeons & Dragons: Honor among thieves”.
John Francis Daley: This is a very good question. I think there are a number of reasons. One is that the film is technically demanding and requires advanced technology both on the practical and digital side of filmmaking. A movie like Dungeons & Dragons wouldn’t have looked nearly as good 15 years ago.
Jonathan Goldstein: I also think previous Dungeons & Dragons movies failed because people didn’t understand the intent of the game. It’s not primarily about the big world and spectacular monsters, it’s more about the spirit of the game – about the fun, the spontaneity. You have to keep working your way out of the mess you’ve gotten yourself into – that’s what the game is all about. And that’s why the game has lasted 50 years.
John Francis Daley: “D&D” isn’t unique in that it’s set in a high-fantasy setting — in fact, it’s probably the least special thing about the franchise — it’s the spirit, it’s the tone, it’s the fun of playing together. And being able to reflect that fun in the movie is what sets it apart from everything else in the genre without making it a parody.
Jeremy Latham: I think even 10 years ago it was really hard to make a movie like this. People get nervous when there are comedic elements in a blockbuster of this magnitude. I think we’re at a point now in cinema where it’s possible to do a movie like Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, it’s accepted and it feels fresh and original – also because we’ve seen a lot of the big Comedies and fantasy films that inspired the movie, such as The Princess Bride or the Monty Python films, are no longer as present.
John Francis Daley: I was a child actor on the show Freaky, Flawless, and my character would be a huge Dungeons & Dragons fan. I knew, but had never dealt with the game directly, so me and the rest of the cast started a campaign. Two or three years before we started making movies, I rediscovered my passion for the hobby and started another campaign. It opened my eyes to how high fantasy can be presented in a completely different light.
Jonathan Goldstein: I was about 12 years old when my older brother brought home the first edition of the manual and let me play with him and his friends a few times. I just remember how impressed I was because until then I had only seen games that actually had a board and clear rules. And everything about Dungeons & Dragons was original. This freedom was incredible.
Jeremy Latham: I was probably seven years old and living in Oklahoma. I well remember there was an event at my church on Sunday about Dungeons & Dragons being satanic and not allowed to be played. And then I never heard of it or talked about it again until I was an adult because I was told as a kid that if I played D&D I would go to hell – yes, that was my first exposure to the game.
Maybe that’s not bad after all. From my point of view as an outsider, we are not only addressing the fans, but we can position ourselves a little more diversified. If we are all well acquainted with the subject, no one would be able to address the “Jeremys” of this world. I had also never read a Marvel comic before joining Marvel.
Jonathan Goldstein: Yes, I came to Belfast and we played with them in their roles for about four hours.
Jonathan Goldstein: Yes, it was a hit. It certainly helped them find perspective for our approach to the film.
John Francis Daley: Some of our artists have also played D&D before. Sofia [Sophia Lillis – sie spielt im Film die Tiefling-Dame Doric] has played before and so has Michelle [Michelle Rodriguez – spielt im Film die Barbarin Holga] had contact points with “D&D” and Regé-Jean Page as a child [spielt den Paladin Xenk] lots of role playing. During this session they could also try out their roles freely.
Jonathan Goldstein: It was a bit like an improv session.
Jeremy Latham: Chris Pine is also a big fan – he also plays it with his whole family and plays with his father and cousin. It’s like a big improv show that he puts on with his family. That’s fantastic!
John Francis Daley: There was a script that existed before we came on board. What we loved about it was the fact that it was based on a robbery, and we thought it would be a nice introduction to this fantasy world since it’s a subgenre that really everyone is familiar with. It is also a good way to bring the group together.
Jonathan Goldstein: We didn’t start with the big world to figure out how best to break it down into its component parts. We started with these characters and their own little stories and expanded from there to take advantage of the diversity of this world.
Jeremy Latham: Everything was possible. I think we knew from the start that the studio was going to give us the budget we needed to make a movie that felt big. When I joined the project, I made it very clear that we need the budget of a Marvel movie to realize our vision and to compete with other modern visual effects blockbusters. The studio understands that bringing a 50-year-old franchise like D&D to the big screen can’t be half-hearted.
John Francis Daley: I was very surprised that the studio was willing to let us put a lot of practical effects into the film. You don’t often see practical effects in big Hollywood productions these days, because they require more preparation and are often more expensive. I think it definitely helped give the movie that authentic, tactile aesthetic that really sets us apart from other big-budget movies and also feels a lot like the 80s and 90s adventure movies that we watched as kids and where we loved.
Jonathan Goldstein: I think part of that is due to the over-reliance on computer effects. In a weird way, the unlimited freedom to create on the computer has made the films less grounded, less real, and more difficult to relate to. We’re homesick for the 80’s and 90’s movies because you felt like you could feel the filmmaking more. It transports you to another world, but at the same time it’s also fun to see how the effects are created, as opposed to the complete abstraction of the special effects through the use of computers.
John Francis Daley: That doesn’t detract from the incredible work we’ve done. I feel like I always have to say that because obviously there’s a lot of visual effects in our movie. The special effects team did a fantastic job building the world.
Jonathan Goldstein: Aside from the effects, there is something else our film has in common with the fantasy films of the 1980s: it is no longer cynical. There’s that kind of innocence in those ’80s movies. Almost like being in a children’s book. And that’s the atmosphere we wanted to create, even though our characters are mature. The film doesn’t give a fuck about the genre, and our characters don’t have a cynical worldview either.
Jeremy Latham: There was something hopeful about 1980s American cinema that the world was very optimistic about, and I think the more difficult the world has become, the more cynical and jaded people become. Modern blockbuster cinema is often a pure orgy of destruction, where it’s all about destroying as many buildings as possible and killing as many people as possible. each other and try to achieve something together.
John Francis Daley: There’s one more thing I’d like to say about your question: there are some insanely good fantasy movies and TV shows, of course, but unfortunately there are also a lot of really crappy ones, and I think that’s what has made audiences skeptical about new fantasy productions – Let’s be area.
Jonathan Goldstein: Of course everyone wants to know if there will be a sequel. All I can say is that we put everything into this movie. We really haven’t thought about follow-up plans, because that would mean putting the cart before the horse.
John Francis Daley: Of course, that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a million other things new and exciting that we could see if we were lucky enough to make a sequel.
Jeremy Latham: I think the Hollywood compulsion to always plan with one universe and always present the audience with 19 movies and 10 TV shows is wrong. Under the motto: You just have to like it now.
John Francis Daley: Spectators must be treated with respect. Often studios seem to think that audiences are mindless brutes who just consume boringly. They’re not, the public appreciates things that are new and exciting and fresh. We made a good movie and we see if people like it and if so then we can plan ahead.