“We are accountable to our members”

Mr. Humbel, what about the Catholic Church in Switzerland?
Luke Humbel: Both the Catholic Church in Switzerland and the Universal Church have been hit by a crisis of faith and credibility – and have now acknowledged it. Efforts are being made worldwide – including in Switzerland – to renew this and regain credibility.

What are the reasons for the crisis of faith?
Megatrends such as secularization – detachment from the church – and individualization, which affect all sections of society. It also affects gymnastics and other clubs: it’s not so cool anymore to stay a member somewhere for life. One is more project-oriented, thinks more in the short term.

And further?
In the past, a Christian song was occasionally sung or prayed before meals at home – that is different today. Faith is now practiced differently, which leads to a breakdown in its transmission in the family. That is even more dangerous than the Brexits. Because the next generation and the generation after that don’t have to leave because they were never baptized and therefore never entered.

However, this does not yet lead to a “credibility crisis”. Where does this come from?
It can clearly be traced back to instances of abuse within the Catholic Church.

Such cases cause more and more people to leave the church. How does that work?
Leaving is always a two-step process: first comes the alienation of the institution from the Church. People no longer practice and participate in it. Perhaps people still pay the church tax out of the belief that it is being used wisely.

And the second step?
Suppose someone is already estranged from the church and feels distanced. Then all it takes is a headline about abuse and the person leaves the church. If something negative happens, it legitimizes an exit. It used to be even more stigmatized, but now it is no longer a problem.

What is the Catholic world church doing against this tendency?
Pope Francis had called for a synod in 2021. In a first step of this process, every believer, anywhere in the world, was allowed to voice his concerns. All people could say what changes they would like to see in the Catholic Church and what beliefs need to be reconsidered.

What was the result?
Women’s ordination and equal rights seem to preoccupy believers all over the world. Sexual morality, power and transparency are equally important issues. A European meeting will be held in Prague in February to compare and summarize the concerns of the different countries in a large report. At the end there will be a synod in the Vatican, where people want to consider these questions.

To my surprise, the lack of equality and discrimination is not only a problem for Western Catholics, but worldwide. Wherever one feels that the Catholic Church has come to a standstill in the last century, discussion is needed.

What do you expect from the synod in the Vatican?
The expectations of this meeting are high and with it the risk of being disappointed. There are many conservative voices: for example, the Eastern Church does not want women to be ordained, that is, to become ministers or priests.

What’s happening in Switzerland?
some. An example of a confidence-building measure is the diocese of Basel, where we want to set up an ombudsman. People with a complaint outside the ecclesiastical power structure can go there.

Can you think of more examples?
We launched the website kirchensteuern-sei-dank.ch. The goal here is to show transparently where the money from the church tax goes. We are accountable to our members for what is done with their tax money. As a church we need to learn to talk about what we do. It is not particularly Catholic to talk about doing good.

And where does the money go?
85 percent of the church tax I pay stays in my parish. This number varies per canton, but at least 75 percent always stays on site.

What do the municipalities spend the money on?
Most for personnel costs. If for some reason I no longer want to pay church tax, then this money will not be available for church work. where I live But it is precisely there that the appreciation takes place through senior and youth work: scouts, blue ring, church social work and of course pastoral care.

In addition, shouldn’t the church reconsider some values ​​in order to be closer to the people again?
The Catholic Church still believes that the follower of Jesus can only be a man. Like most Swiss Catholics, I disagree. But we can’t change that, something has to be changed on a universal church level.

Does that sometimes cause frustration?
I wouldn’t say that. I plead not to lose impatience. The unequal treatment of women bothers me as a Catholic. I can actively work to make things different or give up.

And which option did you choose?
I’m working on such things not having to be the same everywhere – keyword decentralization. Other things, such as baptism, are not done in the same way everywhere.

Is that even necessary? Religion is no longer important to many people.
I don’t think human needs have changed significantly. I believe that all people have something religious in them and just live it out differently.

What was different in the past than now?
In the past, more people went to church, but not because they were more religious than they are now. My grandfather, for example, went to mass every Sunday – for an obvious reason: he was a cheese maker and always did the best business in the church.

In the past, gathering and social pressure were arguments for going to church. I really don’t think Switzerland was more religious 50 years ago than it is now.

But?
Nowadays there are many alternatives to church on Sunday, you can also do other things.

Where does this way of thinking come from?
The church has moved too far from the general social context. The church no longer dares to raise its voice. If she does say something, she is afraid of being caught, as with the Responsible Business Initiative.

Therefore, she would rather say nothing than expose herself to the accusation of being political. The church is political – if the gospel isn’t political then I don’t know what else should be political.

Where do you think the church is progressive?
The canton of Aargau has been trying for 20 years to set up an emergency shelter. Then the church took on the problem – we have had an emergency shelter in the canton for three years now. The same thing happened then in the hospitals – here too the Church has made the beginning. The Church has always been progressive in the field of diakonia – the service of those in need.

So you stand up for the weak, but at the same time oppress women and minorities such as the LGBTQ community?
Yes, wherever the church discriminates, it is wrong and not credible. Here too one should not lose impatience. What we do not want are hypocritical solutions: it is not enough that same-sex couples are blessed in Aargau.

What would need to change to help more people become active members of the Church?
We need to regain our credibility. To do this, we must deal with the abuses within the church and see ourselves as a part of society that is not in a separate area outside it. As part of society, it goes without saying that no one is discriminated against and that everyone is treated equally.

Ultimately, it’s about making it attractive again to say you’re a member of the Catholic Church. You should like to say it and not be ashamed of it.